Curse

Prince Rogrs Nelson · Dec 01, 2010, 04:59 PM // 16:59

The problem with the OP is not so much the content as the tone. In a lot of ways he's RIGHT about most of what he's saying, as evidenced by the fact that he's successfully defended most of his points to the detractors here.

But the tone...it really comes off as petulant.

Personally, I haven't even been playing for 2 years yet, so much of the game is still fresh for me (e.g. "elite" area pve), and I haven't even tried any real pvp (probably shouldn't bother lol). I started playing as a mesmer long before the update last spring, and I'm still discovering the quirks and tendencies of other professions. I'm learning to trust my own skills (and use of my characters' skills) more. I've established myself in a really fun guild full of the kind of people I think I'd like in real life.

There's nothing stale about this to me right now. But I agree that Anet should decide what they're going to add to GW, tell us, and then add it, and not make bold claims they can't back up, and toss out shiny baubles to distract us

RedDog91 · Dec 01, 2010, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkekSister

This forum is full of people who, were they on fire and you handed them an extinguisher, would moan that they didn't like its colour.

^The single most intelligent thing posted in this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

A game that has no monthly fees needs a lot of updates to keep people interested.

wait...so what you're saying that people are bored because it's free? If they were paying a monthly fee for the same thing, they'd be happier?
I don't see how fees+not getting anything for the fees=happiness

I don't care if updates ever happen...I paid for the games the way they were, any updates are just bonus.
By the logic you're getting at, we should be complaining that Super Mario 64 never got updated. HOW DARE WE PAY ONCE AND NEVER GET UPDATES.

Warvic · Dec 01, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

wait...so what you're saying that people are bored because it's free? If they were paying a monthly fee for the same thing, they'd be happier?
I don't see how fees+not getting anything for the fees=happiness

I don't care if updates ever happen...I paid for the games the way they were, any updates are just bonus.
By the logic you're getting at, we should be complaining that Super Mario 64 never got updated. HOW DARE WE PAY ONCE AND NEVER GET UPDATES.

People who play MMO's need updates to stay interested. Games with monthly fees have a better income and can spend more money on designing new content/updates etc. But GW has almost no updates and it getting old. That's why people are leaving. It's just not a good idea for Anet to have alot of people working on this game for financial reasons. So because it doesn't have monthly fees, Anet has less money to spend on updates.

Ofcourse i'm not saying that Super Mario or any other game without monthly fees needs updates to keep players interested. We are talking about MMO's here aren't we? You took it out of context. You knew exactly what i ment with that sentence. It's either a attempt to troll or just you not paying attention

Wich can happen ofcourse.

RedDog91 · Dec 01, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warvic

You took it out of context.

I took it for literal context word for word.

Ka Tet · Dec 01, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

People keep tossing around the free word. Nothing about GW is free. You paid upfront rather than in installments. If you bought a pre-paid cellphone, you wouldn't consider the provider to be magnanimous for providing that service to you.

Malice Black · Dec 01, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51

As per usual with a thread in Riverside this is going around in circles. Lame arguments countered with more lame arguments.

This pretty much covers why P2P MMO's have large content every 6 months/1 year, and why GW won't get another large scale update ever.

Quote:

People who play MMO's need updates to stay interested. Games with monthly fees have a better income and can spend more money on designing new content/updates etc. But GW has almost no updates and it getting old. That's why people are leaving. It's just not a good idea for Anet to have alot of people working on this game for financial reasons. So because it doesn't have monthly fees, Anet has less money to spend on updates.

Factor in that the vast majority staff are now working on the next money maker (GW2), there is nothing left to 'debate' if you can call it that.

ruk1a · Dec 01, 2010, 05:53 PM // 17:53

anet fails, gw is dead, etc. their live team is so pathetic they may as well just take ALL of them and give them to that crappy zombie game that's being developed or whatever. i mean seriously, a zombie game? how fkin original. bet that's going to be a blast. anywho, play another game, get over it.

syronj · Dec 01, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Rogrs Nelson

The problem with the OP is not so much the content as the tone. In a lot of ways he's RIGHT about most of what he's saying, as evidenced by the fact that he's successfully defended most of his points to the detractors here.

But the tone...it really comes off as petulant.

Personally, I haven't even been playing for 2 years yet, so much of the game is still fresh for me (e.g. "elite" area pve), and I haven't even tried any real pvp (probably shouldn't bother lol). I started playing as a mesmer long before the update last spring, and I'm still discovering the quirks and tendencies of other professions. I'm learning to trust my own skills (and use of my characters' skills) more. I've established myself in a really fun guild full of the kind of people I think I'd like in real life.

There's nothing stale about this to me right now. But I agree that Anet should decide what they're going to add to GW, tell us, and then add it, and not make bold claims they can't back up, and toss out shiny baubles to distract us

I've been playing for less than a year. Once GW 2 is released, I wonder how long the original GW will be around. I'm working through the Trilogy and EotN, so by the time I finish, GW 2 will be close to release anyway, but does anyone know how this usually works for MMOs? Will GW be around for several years more, or is it less?

stanzhao · Dec 01, 2010, 06:07 PM // 18:07

the only problem with this is that anet designed their whole business model on a f2p mmo. and i cant see any real complaint for the 5 years of gaming i have got out of the game for the money i have paid.

...however, what is annoying is anets constant promises, and then the fact they just dont do it. If they were to say, 'we cant promise any kind of frequent content, but for the people who are interested in GW still, hopefully we can provide some when we have the resources'

instead they just keep saying things with no end result.

monthly skill updates ---> bi monthly ----> every half a year?
large quarterly updates ----> content whenever we have time
dervish and gvg updates being the latest ----> nothing said in months

they dont have time for skill balances... yet we have had 2 sets of costumes released within nearly 3 weeks of each other. for a game advertised as free to play, when that free content takes a back seat for things people can pay for... thats what gets me.

Surely the time spent creating the 3 types of female wedding attire could have gone to better use?

ruk1a · Dec 01, 2010, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by syronj

I've been playing for less than a year. Once GW 2 is released, I wonder how long the original GW will be around. I'm working through the Trilogy and EotN, so by the time I finish, GW 2 will be close to release anyway, but does anyone know how this usually works for MMOs? Will GW be around for several years more, or is it less?

yes the servers will stay for years to come, even though it IS anet, i believe they aren't dumb enough to take them down after the release of gw2.

Kumu Honua · Dec 01, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by syronj

I've been playing for less than a year. Once GW 2 is released, I wonder how long the original GW will be around. I'm working through the Trilogy and EotN, so by the time I finish, GW 2 will be close to release anyway, but does anyone know how this usually works for MMOs? Will GW be around for several years more, or is it less?

Everquest was released in 1999. It is still going strong today (Not as many players as at release, but still exists.)

This is despite Everquest 2 being released, and MANY other games released in the same vein (Including World of Warcraft).

So, yes. I do indeed expect Guild Wars to stay around for quite some time.

Arduin · Dec 01, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

...however, what is annoying is anets constant promises, and then the fact they just dont do it. If they were to say, 'we cant promise any kind of frequent content, but for the people who are interested in GW still, hopefully we can provide some when we have the resources'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linsey (former lead Live Team)

The Anniversary Update – lessons learned

Back in January we talked a bit about our hopes for the year. Now, eight months later, I want to let you know how it's going so far. The Anniversary Update was a huge success, but it was clear to us that we had bitten off more than we could chew. Once the update went Live, we stepped back a bit to regroup, assess our process, and seek another designer. This took some time away from development, but it was important, and we learned a lot from the experience.

Here’s the biggest takeaway: we just don't have the manpower to produce maintenance builds, skill balance updates, festival builds, and large content updates all at the same time.

That was a pretty big revelation for us. It meant some big changes were needed. We started working on streamlining our update process with the hope that extra work now meant less work later. We began working on automating the base functionality of holiday festivals, weekend events, the monthly tonic changeover, and the monthly tournament map rotation. All of these things have previously been done manually every time and required rigorous testing to make sure no numbers were off and no files were missing. You’d be surprised at how much work each festival needs every time it runs even when we aren't adding new content to it. Automating these systems will free up time for other projects, reduce the number of maintenance builds, remove the need to do a build to start holiday festivals, and simplify the upkeep of GW for its caretakers. It's an exciting project for us because of the effect it will have on our day-to-day work.

......

A New Approach

I know this is a lot of information to take in, and it comes in a package that is sort of unusual in the game industry. At the beginning of the year, we spoke about wanting to be more open about what we’re working on and set this as a high priority in the months that followed. We had a lot of plans for how to accomplish this, but as they say, "The best laid plans of mice and men often go astray.”

We’ve decided to try a slightly different approach, starting with this post. As you can see, we are relaxing our stance on talking about projects that are in progress and projects that are just getting going. We’ve launched Facebook and Twitter pages to give you quick updates on what we are up to. Taking a less formal approach like this will work easier with our fast-paced schedule and will hopefully increase the flow of information to you.

This degree of transparency is unusual for large game companies, being more common to smaller studios and indie projects. We’ll be sharing information and offering insights into the development process that the public normally doesn’t have access to for AAA games. This kind of stuff goes on behind the scenes anyway; we’re just pulling the curtain back to show you the process. To make this new approach successful, our community needs to meet us halfway. We all have to be on the same side here.

So, in return for this openness, we expect you, our community, to be understanding when projects that we have discussed may be canceled or changed, or a project or build is delayed. We want you to have ambitious expectations for us, but to understand that there are always limitations. Everyone has to deal with finite resources, competing priorities, and unexpected complications, and we’re no different. By embracing this reality, we can work together to bridge the gap between development and community for the betterment of the game.

I’m looking forward to chatting about my work openly, but as always please keep in mind that there will be lulls in activity from time to time.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...sons_l earned

Take from all this what you want, but don't claim Anet never told you.

Malice Black · Dec 01, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

yes the servers will stay for years to come, even though it IS anet, i believe they aren't dumb enough to take them down after the release of gw2.

They'll stay open for as long as it's financially viable to keep them running. A year or 2 would be a reasonable guess.

Kuma - EQ is P2P though so the subscription fees allow for them to keep the servers running. GW relies wholly on box sales, so you can't compare the two.

RedDog91 · Dec 01, 2010, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

People keep tossing around the free word. Nothing about GW is free. You paid upfront rather than in installments. If you bought a pre-paid cellphone, you wouldn't consider the provider to be magnanimous for providing that service to you.

I'll agree to an extent.
I paid maybe $120 total over the course of 5 years for GW. Compare that to the $15 a month other games charge, I've paid $780 less than most gamers. I understand why GW is the way it is and accept the fact that you get what you paid for.

The fact is that we as a player base have no viable reason to complain when we haven't paid for the updates. One person said that he and many others had started GW because of the promise to have major updates every 6 months or so. Those updates were called "Factions", "Nightfall", and "Eye of the North"...and we did indeed pay for those updates.
So until ANET starts charging us money, there's no reason to expect updates for nothing.

Voodoo Rage · Dec 01, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

This game is an amazing value for the time I've put in. I can't think of anything close to the return on investment I've received out of this game (maybe like Civilization 2 might be up there...). Seriously, people need a little bit of perspective. I think a lot of people fail to remember back in the day when you bought a buggy game and there was ZERO support to fix it or improve it. I can't tell you how much money I spend on computer games and console games that were pretty much dead on arrival within the first week. I honestly applaud the developers of this game for sticking with it as long as they have and am honestly surprised that we are getting ANY significant content offered to us at this point over 5 years later.

Karate Jesus · Dec 01, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

At OP,

You understand very little of what the TK does or how lazy game developers are. Also, the client is shit and hard to work on (from what I've heard).

So, they have excuses. Oh, and they're not interested in updating skills or adding decent content, when all the money is in costumes and silly weddings

Xsiriss · Dec 01, 2010, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I hear y'all and all I can say again is this: It' not about them maintign the game, more just them sorting they're friggin attitude out. If they suspect they can't maintain the promise of say class updates then tell us or don't bother. It's just inefficient and a waste of time when they cancel a project halfway through.

stanzhao · Dec 01, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduin

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...sons_l earned

Take from all this what you want, but don't claim Anet never told you.

that wasnt exactly my real point, but thanks for just picking out one of the things i said, with an answer that doesnt really answer the point i was talking about...

if 'better than nothing' becomes the standard, it doesn't say much

syronj · Dec 01, 2010, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

I'll agree to an extent.
I paid maybe $120 total over the course of 5 years for GW. Compare that to the $15 a month other games charge, I've paid $780 less than most gamers. I understand why GW is the way it is and accept the fact that you get what you paid for.

The fact is that we as a player base have no viable reason to complain when we haven't paid for the updates. One person said that he and many others had started GW because of the promise to have major updates every 6 months or so. Those updates were called "Factions", "Nightfall", and "Eye of the North"...and we did indeed pay for those updates.
So until ANET starts charging us money, there's no reason to expect updates for nothing.

This year I paid all of $ 7 for EotN and around $ 25 for the Trilogy. I appreciate all the time ANet spent on this series. (At the same time, I'm not trying to minimize the concerns of those who posted in this thread.)

By waiting to buy the series, it's true that I missed GW when it was at its peak; but it's still fun. GW 2 should be amazing, though, if ANet has (hopefully) learned from the original.

Ka Tet · Dec 01, 2010, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

the only problem with this is that anet designed their whole business model on a f2p mmo.

GW is not F2P, it's B2P (Buy to play). These things are very different.
For example, GW requires you to BUY the game in order to play. Regardless of subscription costs, it is B2P. A game like LOTRO is F2P. You can play the game with absolutely no money invested, however there are optional cash upgrades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

I'll agree to an extent.
I paid maybe $120 total over the course of 5 years for GW. Compare that to the $15 a month other games charge, I've paid $780 less than most gamers. I understand why GW is the way it is and accept the fact that you get what you paid for.

The fact is that we as a player base have no viable reason to complain when we haven't paid for the updates. One person said that he and many others had started GW because of the promise to have major updates every 6 months or so. Those updates were called "Factions", "Nightfall", and "Eye of the North"...and we did indeed pay for those updates.
So until ANET starts charging us money, there's no reason to expect updates for nothing.

I'm glad you said that, because it brings us to the next point. They are still selling new copies of the game. That comes with commitments. If you continue to sell the product, you have to continue to service it.
Let me reiterate. They did charge us money for the work they do on the game; we paid upfront rather than on a monthly basis.